(urth) Brook Madregot runs between

[Jerry Friedman]

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>

...

> When Roy takes the phrase "*Yesod, the universe higher than our own*" to 
>unequivocally
> mean it is a separated entity, I just don't understand. To me "higher" implies 
>connection;
> a comparison of two points on the same scale, ladder, spectrum, whatever. 
>Perhaps the 
>
> separation part it is a social class issue and I am too plebian to get it ;- 
).

> I had a similar fear that I was going illiterate when Roy attempted to prove 
>the same point 
>
> with: 

>The Brook Madregot runs *between* the universes Briah and Yesod (285), so of 
>course 
>
>they are apart.

> Another WTF moment for me.  But giving it some thought I realized he was 
>thinking of the word
> "between" differently than I was. For him it is a separation word like "The 
>Danube flowed 
>
> between the towns of Buda and Pest".

Not to speak for Roy, but I'd be very surprised if that's what he was thinking.

> For me, in this context, it is a connection word like, 
> "Interstate 5 runs between Seattle and San Diego".


> I can see that if one has always assumed Yesod to be separate and distinct from 
>the sequence
> of universes, each statement in the text becomes twisted to mean that very 
>thing. Likewise for 
>
> me and perhaps others who have always assumed that Yesod was connected in a 
>sequence to Briah.

> I think that this particular textual passage (below) seems to argue for 
>sequential connection not 
>
> separation. But perhaps others will disagree.

I will.  I think there are different dimensions of possible connection here.

>>Severian- "But this place is Briah, or part of it. It's a passage in your ship, 
>>the one you showed
>>me when you led me to my stateroom"

>>Tinkerbell Tzadkiel- "If that is so, you were near Yesod when you were with me 
>>on our ship. This is
>>the Brook Madregot, and it runs from Yesod to Briah".

>>Severian- "Between the universes? How could that be?"

>>Tinkerbell Tzadkiel- "How could it not be? Energy gropes for some lower state, 
>>always..."

>>Severian- "But it's a stream, like the streams of Urth"

>>Tinkerbell Tzadkiel nods- "Those too are of energy seeking a lower state...."


> I'm not sure if I understand Roy and Tony and Jeff and others' view correctly- 
>is Yesod to be 
>
> viewed as a lonely orphan universe sticking off to the side of Briah?

Not off to the side--above.

> Or does it go through its own 
> Bangs and Gnabs? Either way seems messy but I am open to the possibily that 
>this might be the intended
> interpretation.

My view is that it's like a shotgun house.  On the first floor are rooms in a 
linear sequence (universes including Briah and our universe in a time sequence, 
or maybe ours is called Briah too).  The roof is flat and has a railing and some 
lawn chairs so you can go up there when the house is too hot or you want to 
stargaze.  (The habitable space on the roof is Yesod, the universe above 
Briah.)  You can get from the roof to the lower story at various places in the 
sequence of rooms (various times).  When it rains, water leaks down from the 
roof into the rooms.  (I don't need to say what that corresponds to.)

Whether Yesod has its own Bangs and Gnabs I can't say.  Maybe it's more like an 
upper story with rooms that match the lower one.  I also can't say what's above 
Yesod, if anything.  And of course there are more dimensions to allow for all 
those different timelines.

> I think the text also allows for my view that Briah is destroyed, giving rise 
>to Yesod. I find it 
>
> simpler and more elegant. Yesod is higher than Briah, both in energy and 
>spirituality.  Like Dan'l I am 
>
> pleased that this view allows Yesod to be our own universe and suggests a 
>reason why our Earth is 
>
> spiritually more advanced than Urth (Jesus).

I find it very hard to see how Severian, in Yesod, could be at a time before the 
people he knew were born, if Yesod is later in time than Briah.  As people have 
pointed out.

Earth is very much like Urth.  Few of us would have thought Urth was a 
subsequent universe rather than our future if Wolfe hadn't said so outside the 
book.  Yesod seems like a totally different place, far more different that the 
existence of Jesus could explain, from what I can see at Google Books and 
Amazon.  But I can't prove anything from what I can see.

Jerry Friedman
                            
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