(urth) Hierogrammates, Briah and Yesod

[Lane Haygood]

Wouldn't this contradict the notion of simultaneously-existing
universes that are "ranked' in order of ascension, a la the Kabbalah?

I agree that it is difficult to compare Briah and Yesod as they
represent different Kabbalastic concepts, but I've always thought of
one "ascending" (literally/figuratively) through Briah and coming out
in Yesod, and vice-versa, as though the two can coexist temporally but
not spatially.

Which is not to say that Wolfe might not have intended the Kabbalistic
parallels to actually run so parallel.  He may have just thought,
"wow, these names sound neat.  I think I'll use them."

LH

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Preliminary note- I think it is important to consider that if you are attempting
> to be forcefully domineering and authoritative in discussing a work of fiction which
> relies on an unreliable narrator, it is not enough to say "it is in the text!". If you
> are attempting to make inarguable pronouncements I think you should both quote the text
> in question and make the statement "it is here in the text and not contradicted, even once,
> anywhere else in the text!"
>
>
> John Watkins and I are in disagreement over the relationship between Hierogrammates,
> Briah and Yesod. My view is that Briah precedes Yesod in the cosmic timeline, that
> the birth of each new universe is what constitutes a "manvantara" and that Hierogrammates
> were created in Briah by some version of humanity and escaped to Yesod. John feels that the
> Hierogrammates' creation had nothing to do with Severian's universe or his race.
>
> The text I base my views on:
>
>>Severian- "But on the ship I thought we had come to the end of Briah when we came here"
>>Apheta- "So you did..."
>
> As the Ship approaches the end of its journey Severian sees, rising over the topmost sail-
>
>>"the birth of a new universe, the primal explosion containing every sun because from it all
>>suns will come.."
>
> Taken together, it seems clear to me that as Briah ends in a Great Gnab it Big Bangs into the
> new universe, Yesod.
>
>
> In Yesod, Severian speaks to Tzadkiel who tells him,
>
>>"..I am as I am, your own race having made us so before the apocatasatis. Were you not told
> that they had shaped us in their image?"
>
>
> Later Severian wonders why Tzadkiel disguised himself so he could hang out with Severian on the
> ship. Tzadkiel explains that if Severian had had a childhood hero, it would be only natural, if
> given the chance to want to:
>
> "walk with him, ..Stand beside him when he was in danger..Care for him, perhaps, when he was ill."
>
>
> This seems clear to me. Tzadkiel is saying that Severian's race created his and that Severian, as
> a major participant in this, is a legendary childhood hero of Tzadkiel's.
>
> I am open to hearing contradictory quotes from the text.
>
> However, I do not find that mention of vanished creations or a past manvantara to be contradictory.
> While one is in Yesod, Briah IS a vanished, long gone creation or past universe. I agree it can lead
> to some confusing speech.
>
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