(urth) Boatman as Inire

Jeff Wilson jwilson at io.com
Mon Aug 9 00:28:04 PDT 2010


On 8/8/2010 10:40 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:
>
> On Aug 8, 2010, at 11:31 PM, Lee Berman wrote:
>
>>> Ryan Dunn: who might Gunnie/Burgundafora point back to? Anyone?
>>
>> Do you have someone in mind?
>>
>> My best thought would be Agia.  She also was a female companion who
>> betrayed Severian. But they seem so different. Burgundofora meant
>> well but she lacked character and bravery. Agia was oozing with
>> character and bravery but she meant ill.
>
> I mean two women who coexist at different ages, but are in fact the same person. And no, I don't have anyone in mind right now, but Dorcas and Valeria are potential candidates, having been messed with time-wise. I'm thinking if there is a connection back to BotNS, it would be a female. Jolenta is the waitress under a glamour spell, but Burgundofora and Gunnie attended the ships, which allowed time overlap.

Gunnie (the elder) had some of Agia's gumption as well, even if she let 
herself be turned about morally as thoroughly as she was temporally.

> Perhaps this situation has more to do with revealing what happens if there are more than one instance of a person in close proximity, and how that relates back to BotNS. Severian is close to Apu Punchau in UotNS, and for a moment in BotNS, and apparently comes out fine. Hildegrin not so much.

There may be some kind of temporal grace aboard the Big Ship, otherwise 
Tzadkiel would be zapping itself as parts came and went - unless 
Tzadkiel is a collective being like I've been thinking lately.

There may also be some difference as Gunnie presumably comes by her 
bilocation honestly rather than through any aquastor/eidolon duplication.

>> Roy if I remember correctly you place a lot of stock in this exchange:
>>
>>> Severian- "...the Cumaean, she was a Hierodule, like you. Father Inire told me."
>>> Famulimus and Barbatus nodded.
>>
>> I can't remember if I've mentioned my reservations. This exchange could mean that
>> yes, Father Inire and The Cumaean are hierodules. Simple. End of story.
>>
>> But I consider that perhaps Famulimus and Barbatus' nods only concur that this is
>> what Father Inire tells his Autarchs.
>
> You do agree, though, that Inire is (to Severian's knowledge) definitely a cacogen, like the Cumaean?

What do you mean by "cacogen" here? If you mean "non-human intelligent 
creature not of Urthly descent", it doesn't seem to discriminate between 
the various kinds. If you mean "cacogen" the way that the characters in 
the story use it, I don't think we actually meet any in the BOTNS, since 
it emerges that the hierodules wear "disgusting alien monster" masks to 
pass as aliens from elsewhere in the Milky Way, instead of the masters 
of time and space from Yesod. This is a somewhat benign form of the 
alien conspiracy masquerading as an alien conspiracy trope perhaps first 
appearing in HPL's _THE WHISPERER IN DARKNESS_.

aaaaaaeehhiijnnorrrstu

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
IEEE Student Chapter Blog at
< http://ieeetamut.org >



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