(urth) The spiny orange - we used to throw the fruit at each other as kids and call them stink bombs.

[brunians at brunians.org]

Sure, not all ancient cultivated plants are like this.


.

> I can't argue with your new formulation, especially after
> you gave the examples I requested.  On the other hand,
> it's easy to think of ancient cultivated plants that have
> flowers with both male and female parts--legumes, most
> cereals, fruits of the rose family, cotton, and flax--and
> others that have separate male and female flowers on the
> same plant--squashes, the calabash, and for a Wolfean
> connection, corn.
>
> Of course, if you ever learn Gene Wolfe's thoughts on
> these subjects, I hope you'll share them on this list.
>
> Jerry Friedman
>
> --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
>> I didn't know that. I am actually a very ignorant person.
>>
>> I would have to modify my statement in light of that
>> knowledge. I have no
>> doubt that you are correct when you say this,
>>
>> Some plants that have male and female flowers on seperate
>> stems seem to be
>> ancient cultivers. These plants tend to be useful for food,
>> drugs, as
>> material for making tools etc. Good examples include
>> cannabis and osage orange.
>>
>> I have to say that while this makes sense to me, I don't
>> expect it to make
>> sense to everybody. I have some ideas about history and
>> deep history that
>> are seriously at variance with the versions generally
>> accepted these days,
>> though (coincidentally or not) they are basically the same
>> as Gene Wolfe's
>> views on the same subjects. I do not know whether he agrees
>> with my
>> opinion expressed above: I hope to ask him some time. I
>> suspect that he
>> does or would.
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> > Then would you mind elaborating on those
>> reasons?  An
>> > example of such a plant would be helpful.
>> >
>> > I'll give an example of why I doubt it: all willows
>> are
>> > dioecious, and very few have been cultivated.
>> >
>> > Jerry Friedman
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org
>> <brunians at brunians.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> It's not really a claim. I wouldn't
>> >> call it a claim.
>> >>
>> >> I do have reasons why I say it, yes.
>> >
>> > I wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Do you have any basis for that extremely
>> strange claim
>> >> about dioecious plants?  Is there even a single
>> >> example?
>> >> >
>> >> > Jerry Friedman
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Tue, 11/3/09, brunians at brunians.org
>> >> <brunians at brunians.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> From: brunians at brunians.org
>> >> <brunians at brunians.org>
>> >> >> Pardon, I meant seperate male and
>> >> >> female plants, not seperate flowers on
>> >> >> the same stem. .
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > These plants with seperate male and
>> female
>> >> flowers are
>> >> >> mostly ancient cultivers.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > .
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The spiny orange of Able's
>> bow.   
>> >> Wolfe
>> >> >> has a hand carved walking stick
>> >> >> >> of osage orange - carved by Joe
>> Mayhew.
>> >> >> >> Maclura pomifera
>> >> >> >>>From Wikipedia, the free
>> encyclopedia
>> >> >> >> Osage-orange, Horse-apple or
>> Bois D'Arc
>> >> even know
>> >> >> as the Drewedic
>> >> >> >> Bullochus (Maclura pomifera) is
>> >> dioeceous
>> >> >> </wiki/Plant_sexuality>  plant
>> >> >> >> species, with male and female
>> flowers
>> >> >> </wiki/Flower>  on different
>> >> >> >> plants. It is a small deciduous
>> >> >> </wiki/Deciduous>  tree
>> >> </wiki/Tree> 
>> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> large shrub </wiki/Shrub>
>> ,
>> >> typically
>> >> >> growing to 8-15 metres (26-49 ft)
>> >> >> >> tall. The fruit
>> </wiki/Fruit> , a
>> >> multiple
>> >> >> fruit </wiki/Multiple_fruit>
>> >> >> >> , is roughly spherical, but
>> bumpy, and
>> >> 7-15 cm in
>> >> >> diameter, and it is
>> >> >> >> filled with a sticky white
>> latex
>> >> >> </wiki/Latex>  sap
>> </wiki/Sap> . In
>> >> >> >> fall, its color turns a bright
>> >> yellow-green and it
>> >> >> has a faint odor
>> >> >> >> similar to that of oranges
>> >> >> </wiki/Orange_(fruit)> .[1]
>> <>
>> >> >> >> The Osage-orange is commonly
>> used as a
>> >> tree row
>> >> >> windbreak
>> >> >> >> </wiki/Windbreak>  in
>> prairie
>> >> states,
>> >> >> which gives it one of its
>> >> >> >> colloquial names, "hedge
>> apple".
>> >> >> >> The trees acquired the name bois
>> d'arc,
>> >> or
>> >> >> "bow-wood", from early French
>> >> >> >> </wiki/France>  settlers
>> who
>> >> observed
>> >> >> the wood being used for war clubs
>> >> >> >> and bow-making by Native
>> Americans
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> </wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States> .[3]
>> >> >> <>  Meriwether Lewis
>> >> >> >> was told that the people of the
>> Osage
>> >> Nation
>> >> >> </wiki/Osage_Nation>
>> >> >> >> "esteem the wood of this tree
>> for the
>> >> making of
>> >> >> their bows, that they
>> >> >> >> travel many hundred miles in
>> quest of
>> >> it." Many
>> >> >> modern bowyers assert
>> >> >> >> the wood of the Osage Orange is
>> superior
>> >> even to
>> >> >> English Yew for this
>> >> >> >> purpose, though this opinion is
>> by no
>> >> means
>> >> >> unanimous. The trees are
>> >> >> >> also known as "bordarch" trees,
>> most
>> >> likely
>> >> >> originating from a
>> >> >> >> corruption of "bois d'arc."
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Any federal tax advice contained
>> herein
>> >> or in any
>> >> >> attachment
>> >> >> >> hereto is not intended to be
>> used, and
>> >> cannot be
>> >> >> used, to (1)
>> >> >> >> avoid penalties imposed under
>> the
>> >> Internal Revenue
>> >> >> Code or
>> >> >> >> (2) support the promotion or
>> marketing of
>> >> any
>> >> >> transaction or
>> >> >> >> matter.  This legend has been
>> affixed
>> >> to
>> >> >> comply with U.S.
>> >> >> >> Treasury Regulations governing
>> tax
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
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