(urth) The Devil in a Forest

Tue May 19 11:13:38 PDT 2009

'tends to'.

Once in a while you run into a leftist who is not completely out of touch
with reality. Not too often.

Actually, that's not completely fair. Many leftists are in fact in touch
enough with reality to carry on their daily lives. But if you talk to one
often enough you will find that he believes stuff that just ain't so
(like, the government issues money or theft is OK when it is performed by
legal process, things like that).

.

> I'm a democratic socialist and a member of the US Communist party. I
> also do not believe in God. It doesn't affect me one way or the other
> that Wolfe is my opposite number on these positions, because his
> stories are still very, very awesome.
>
> Good literature transcends factionalism.
>
> Lane
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 19, 2009, at 9:47 AM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:
>
>> Actually, "Wolfe is pro-gun" has the ring of truth to it, as does
>> "Wolfe
>> is a fiscal conservative". He has his point of view on things.
>> People who
>> agree with him generally have no trouble seeing it.
>>
>> People who (a) like Wolfe's fiction and (b) hold political views very
>> different from his tend to (I have noticed) jump through interesting
>> hoops
>> whilst explaining that Wolfe does not actually believe what everyone
>> else
>> seems to think he does. Anything but that. They will deny it at
>> length.
>> Like most things, this is amusing once it stops being annoying.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>>
>>> I think there is more to it than just how sneaky his propaganda is.
>>> Sure,
>>> Wolfe is propagandizing, as always---but he doesn't just
>>> propagandize for
>>> a narrow segment of the political spectrum, and he rarely makes
>>> things as
>>> black and white and baldly allegorical as you seem to suggest.
>>> Rather, he
>>> asks questions and examines the moral aspects of the range of
>>> answers.
>>>
>>> Almost by definition, an interpretation of Wolfe that keeps it
>>> simple---says "Wolfe is pro-gun," for example---is going to be
>>> inadequate,
>>> even if not flatly wrong.
>>>
>>> In other words, don't lose the forest for the trees, even if there
>>> is a
>>> devil hiding in them.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:41:30 -0500
>>> From: "James Wynn" <crushtv at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: (urth) The Devil in a Forest
>>> To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
>>> Message-ID: <322A6386203C478F871C5C0BEAD76770 at eMachinePC>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>>    reply-type=original
>>>
>>>
>>>>> "Propaganda" may be just the right term for Wolfe.
>>>>> Originally it was a term used by the Vatican for the
>>>>> propagation of the faith. It's come to have a cheaper meaning.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I use the term "propaganda" to mean "the attempt to persuade at the
>>> non-rational level". It has a bad rap because it is typically so
>>> inartfully
>>> done. The idea is to have the audience only stew in the well-seasoned
>>> juices
>>> of the argument so they rationally convince themselves at a later
>>> time.
>>> You
>>> have to _demonstrate_ while exhibiting the self-control never _to
>>> tell_.
>>> "The Devil in a Forest" does that. If the work is essentially
>>> framed in a
>>> "message", rather than metaphor, the audience is forced to approach
>>> the
>>> propaganda on a rational level and it loses its much of its power.
>>> For
>>> example, Woody Guthrie's "This Land is Your Land" is fantastic
>>> Communist
>>> propaganda (if you know all the verses). Pete Seeger's stuff is
>>> hack-work--if he had a hammer, he'd hit you over the head with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> ...tDiaF ends with a miracle -- the only "fantasy" element in the
>>>> book...
>>>>
>>>
>>> I even wonder whether it *is* the only fantasy element. There are
>>> subtle
>>> hints that the stories of Mother Cloot being able to fly might not
>>> be mere
>>> superstition at all.  And at least twice it is noted that she *is*
>>> unexpectedly light. It is a tip to the hat that Evil is also not
>>> merely a
>>> fantasy element. Still, certainly the only _overtly_ non-rational
>>> event is
>>> the abbe's healing.
>>>
>>> J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
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