(urth) Babbie

[Son of Witz]

On Mar 18, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Chris P wrote:

>
> > >> Witz: I think there's some timeline screw up here.
> > >> When Horn get's permission, he's plain Horn. The Rajan writes  
> about
> > >> it after the fact, with his Horn memories.
> > >> he'd have to be lying, which is of course possible, but...
> > >
> > > When tBotSS starts, it is the Raja who is writing. Not only is he
> > > Horn, but he is also Silk. He has already flown to Green and died,
> > > returned to the Whorl, and come back to rule. The Raja is a
> > > Neighbor, but he has all of Horn's memories and identity within  
> him.
> > > Same for Silk. 100% of what Horn was is within him. 100% of Silk.
> > >
> > > The Raja makes a choice to assert Horn within him. He could have
> > > chosen to do the same for Silk. He doesn't for a very obvious
> > > reason. When he says he's Horn, he's not lying. He's disturbed. As
> > > so often is the case with Wolfe's characters, he's telling a lie
> > > that is also the truth, but it's not the whole truth.
> > >
> > > He denies his Neighborness for the same reason he denies he is
> > > Silk...because if he's really "not-Horn" then Horn is dead and he
> > > killed him. It is not until after the battle that he embraces  
> who he
> > > is at a conscious level. But he still can't bring himself to face
> > > Hoof and Hide on the day he leaves for the Whorl --as he says--
> > > because he killed their father.
> > >
> > > J.
> >
> > Ok. I just read that old post of yours, and I think I get you more
> > clearly.
> > http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/004360.html
> >
> > Witz: You're NOT including Pas in your Trinity right? just Horn/ 
> Silk/
> > Neighbor. Not Horn/Silk/Neighbor/Pas.
>
> At least the way I read it, Pas did not have a soul as such. He was  
> a... pattern, or a psyche (in the terminology I remember us using in  
> that particular conversation) at best. Typhon's soul stayed with  
> Typhon. Even that psyche was not exactly Typhon, because it had  
> either changed on its own or been edited to fit its new role on the  
> ship (not to mention the things that happened to it afterward).

I hear you.  But wouldn't that mean that Divine Silk was a pattern and  
not a soul or psyche?
I've understood that it was Divine Silk that got into Pig and thus  
Horn/Silk.
Unless of course, Divine Silk doesn't really factor in at all, and  
somehow Silk's soul got into Pig by some other means.

I'm not trying to make a watertight case for any particular view, just  
trying to parse out the possibilities.  I'm completely up in the air  
about it.
I know I thoroughly enjoyed these books before I even got a clue about  
the third soul. If Stu hadn't clued me into the pen case, I don't  
think I would have caught a whiff at all.