(urth) Babbie

Son of Witz sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org
Wed Mar 18 22:49:34 PDT 2009

On Mar 18, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Chris P wrote:

> > >> Witz: I think there's some timeline screw up here.
> > >> When Horn get's permission, he's plain Horn. The Rajan writes  
> about
> > >> it after the fact, with his Horn memories.
> > >> he'd have to be lying, which is of course possible, but...
> > >
> > > When tBotSS starts, it is the Raja who is writing. Not only is he
> > > Horn, but he is also Silk. He has already flown to Green and died,
> > > returned to the Whorl, and come back to rule. The Raja is a
> > > Neighbor, but he has all of Horn's memories and identity within  
> him.
> > > Same for Silk. 100% of what Horn was is within him. 100% of Silk.
> > >
> > > The Raja makes a choice to assert Horn within him. He could have
> > > chosen to do the same for Silk. He doesn't for a very obvious
> > > reason. When he says he's Horn, he's not lying. He's disturbed. As
> > > so often is the case with Wolfe's characters, he's telling a lie
> > > that is also the truth, but it's not the whole truth.
> > >
> > > He denies his Neighborness for the same reason he denies he is
> > > Silk...because if he's really "not-Horn" then Horn is dead and he
> > > killed him. It is not until after the battle that he embraces  
> who he
> > > is at a conscious level. But he still can't bring himself to face
> > > Hoof and Hide on the day he leaves for the Whorl --as he says--
> > > because he killed their father.
> > >
> > > J.
> >
> > Ok. I just read that old post of yours, and I think I get you more
> > clearly.
> > http://lists.urth.net/htdig.cgi/urth-urth.net/2004-December/004360.html
> >
> > Witz: You're NOT including Pas in your Trinity right? just Horn/ 
> Silk/
> > Neighbor. Not Horn/Silk/Neighbor/Pas.
> At least the way I read it, Pas did not have a soul as such. He was  
> a... pattern, or a psyche (in the terminology I remember us using in  
> that particular conversation) at best. Typhon's soul stayed with  
> Typhon. Even that psyche was not exactly Typhon, because it had  
> either changed on its own or been edited to fit its new role on the  
> ship (not to mention the things that happened to it afterward).

I hear you.  But wouldn't that mean that Divine Silk was a pattern and  
not a soul or psyche?
I've understood that it was Divine Silk that got into Pig and thus  
Unless of course, Divine Silk doesn't really factor in at all, and  
somehow Silk's soul got into Pig by some other means.

I'm not trying to make a watertight case for any particular view, just  
trying to parse out the possibilities.  I'm completely up in the air  
about it.
I know I thoroughly enjoyed these books before I even got a clue about  
the third soul. If Stu hadn't clued me into the pen case, I don't  
think I would have caught a whiff at all.

More information about the Urth mailing list