(urth) Quasi Christ?

Jordon Flato jordonflato at gmail.com
Mon Feb 9 11:27:18 PST 2009

Your point about the fall is an interesting one.  I'll have to think about
that, as it's a great point.

This though, I don't get at all:  "And why not a single instantiation of
Christ for the whole universe?  If the death of an infinite being suffices
for the redemption of all creation, what's the sense of repeating it?"

Isn't part of the Christian faith that one has to come to God through
Christ?  It's not a simple as "Christ died, everyone is redeemed, case
closed."  If that were the case, what would the need be for a Catholic
Church.  One has to come to know Christ, and attempt to live in, through,
him.  To follow his example, To become "christ" like.  How does one do that
if you've never had the opportunity to hear of him?

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com>wrote:

> All that depends on whether the Fall occurred on other planets as well; or
> perhaps whether the Fall on Earth puts all of Creation in the same boat,
> soteriologically speaking.
> C.S. Lewis addressed this issue in the first two books of his Space
> Trilogy, and comes to a different conclusion from what Wolfe's appears to
> be.  Lewis suggests that a Fall is possible on every planet individually,
> while Wolfe (as I read him, anyway) seems to be saying that the Fall was
> creation-wide, and that the one appearance of Christ on Earth suffices for
> the whole cosmos.
> And why not a single instantiation of Christ for the whole universe?  If
> the death of an infinite being suffices for the redemption of all creation,
> what's the sense of repeating it?
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com>wrote:
>> Man, I was just coming on to lay out some ideas only to see that you've
>> beaten me to the punch on some of them, Witz.
>> One of the big points that always roils around in my head with this issue
>> of "Christ", "Quasi-Christ," etc., is the notion that the Catholic or indeed
>> Christian notion of a singular and non repeatable instance of Christ seems
>> to be an entirely and unabashedly geocentric vision.  The world of New Sun
>> in an interstellar, and indeed interdimensional one.  Are we to believe that
>> Christ, in this world, if he *was* a part of the history and metaphysics of
>> Briah, would appear in a single instance on a single planet eons in the
>> past, and never have influence as redeemer on any other world?  How would a
>> Catholic worldview have to adjust itself to incorporate the reality of a
>> universe teeming with life and intelligence?  Hasn't Wolfe tried to tackle
>> this question in New Sun?  Why do we not discuss it in the context of this
>> work?
>> When we argue about "Is Severian a Christ or Christ-instance" it is still
>> soley from the point of view of Urth as the sole center of Christ's
>> influence, or the increates influence (I'm generalizing grossly with the 'we
>> argue' part, as there have no doubt been disucssion to add this dimension in
>> the past).
>> So, if Severian is not an instance of The Christ (which I am more and more
>> inclined to believe he is not), can there ever have beenany unique instance
>> of "the christ" in Sev's universe, knowning that life is teeming across the
>> universe?  Do we have to invent a unique instance of Christ on every planet
>> with intellegent life in order to square this with Catholic theology?  Or do
>> we write off the rest of these civilizations as simply damned?
>> We know "God" exists in the universe of New Sun, because of The Outsider
>> (well, that is how I take it anyway).  As does Jesus, who we can recognize
>> through some of Silks visions.  How does this square with a much wider, much
>> bigger universe.
>> How can Christ have been a single instantation, never to be repeated, in a
>> universe like this?  And if he WAS, don't we have to completely re-write our
>> understanding of a merciful God?
>> This isn't as well thought out as I'd like.  I'll probably revist it
>> later....
> --
> Matt +
> In the early days of his power, he is full of smiles, and he salutes
> everyone whom he meets.
> Plato (c. 428-348 B.C.), The Republic, bk. VIII, 566-D
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