(urth) Silk for calde blog: Wolfe thesis

[brunians at brunians.org]

Orthodox Christianity (including Catholicism) is Christianity. The forms
of Protestantism are Christianity with various bits sliced off.

Christianity began by being a coherent expression of the common ancient
Worldview with a particular theological slant upon it.


.

> This is pure speculation on my part, as I was raised Protestant, so please
> forgive me if I stereotype.
>
> 1.  SF authors are interested in, um, science.  Science being a logical
> and repeatable method for explaining the universe.  Expanding on that
> idea, many SF authors (Wolfe, for instance) are interested not just in the
> results, but in the nature of logic, rationality, thought, memory, etc.
> 2.  Protestantism has vague boundaries to many of its practitioners.  Ask
> ten Baptists what they believe and you will probably get eleven answers.
> The clergy in Protestant churches are likely to be well-educated, informed
> about and invested in their system of belief, but their parishioners much
> less so (the first two at least).  There is also much less an idea of a
> "clergy lifestyle" - pastors are very free to pursue their own agendas
> outside of their pastoral duties, and opinions vary widely as to what is
> permissible.  Drinking, smoking, dancing, hunting, parties, etc.  Opinions
> vary widely on these topics, even within one denomination.
> 3.  As an earlier poster pointed out, Catholicism has a lot of trappings,
> but I wanted to point out that it also has a more uniform belief system,
> with predefined actions, rituals, etc, and (I think) a clergyman is much
> more likely to have a "clergy lifestyle" across the Catholic church.  So,
> as a symbol a priest has a more universal power and greater accessibility
> than a pastor does, because many of his attributes and attitudes are
> known.  At least their stereotypes are known.
>
> Sorry for rambling and chasing rabbits (I'm really tired), but my main
> point was this: it must appeal to many authors to be able to play two
> systems against each other to see where they are consonant and dissonant.
> This is, I believe, a summary of the proposed thesis.  Because Catholicism
> seems a more defined system than, say, Methodism or Judaism (where it's
> much more likely that believers will pick and choose their doctrines), and
> the priest a more universal symbol, I would think those aspects would
> appeal to an author looking to juxtapose religion with science.
>
> Ok, one more try: Catholicism is much more like a religious science than
> many other religions.  That's all I wanted to add to The Big Dog theory.
>
> The temptation to provide a false dichotomy between religion and science
> often proves too strong for the zealous author.  Too strong for a good
> story, at least.  One theme of Wolfe's that would bear mention in your
> proposed thesis is religion as a humanizing element.  Wolfe is aware of
> the powerful benevolent moral influence of religion as well as the
> terrible things that it can achieve.  Most of the "negative" religion in
> SF that you mention comes from authors who believe (as best I can make
> out) that rationality should be sufficient to conquer our moral problems,
> who discount religion's benevolent influence as trivial at best, and who
> have in their minds a scale with the Inquisition, the Crusades, suicide
> bombers, Mayan sacrifice, etc on one side, and nothing on the other.
>
> Anyway in Wolfe when the priest finds his faith shaken or confirmed, it is
> often this humanizing process - he must confront what about his faith he
> can continue to believe, what he finds truly important, what is worth
> believing, whether he will continue to believe it whether or not there is
> any proof of it, etc.  These are the same questions that we all confront
> about our beliefs if we are to shape them into something worth believing,
> whether or not they are religious.  </sermon>  I also wonder how much of
> Silk's journey is an analog to Wolfe's own - I feel that I can see Wolfe's
> shadow on Silk, as he makes a deliberate choice to believe even when it
> seems foolhardy and dense.  I often feel the same way in my faith so maybe
> I'm just projecting.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
> To: The Urth Mailing List <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Sent: Tue, September 22, 2009 12:49:07 PM
> Subject: Re: (urth) Silk for calde blog: Wolfe thesis
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Adam Thornton <adam at io.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Something I'd *really* like to see someone play with is: why is such a
>> large proportion of religion-oriented SF Catholic?
>
> One reason is that Catholicism is the Big Dog of Christianity. There is no
> Protestant sect that comes near Catholicism in terms of total membership;
> thus, if you want to present a generic Christian, a Catholic is the
> logical choice.
>
> In addition, there is a huge and interesting dynamic between Catholicism,
> specifically, and science. Catholicism is the most "rationalistic" of the
> Christian religions, with its theology heavily based on the
> Aristoteleanism of St Thomas Aquinas. Yet Catholicism is -- or was, until
> fundamentalism reared its head and began resenting biology and geology --
> the sect which has the most significant history of conflict with science
> and rationalism (can you say Galileo? I knew you could).
>
> Plus, as Jerry observed below, there is all the nifty colorful baggage
> that comes with Catholicism - though if that's what you're looking for,
> Eastern Orthodoxy is even better.
>
>
>
>>If it reflects the background of the authors, then why are Catholics
>> overrepresented in SF authorship (and, concomitantly, why are there
>> relatively few Jewish SF stories) ?  I mean, just off the top of my head:
>>
>
> Relatively few Jewish SF stories? Heavens, man, what about Asimov's
> "Robot" stories? Those are all basically Talmudic disputation.
>
> There are two excellent anthologies of Jewish SF edited by Jack Dann in
> the '70s, "Wandering Stars" and "More Wandering Stars."
>
>
>
> Where's, for example, the Lutheran SF?  (If I were being snarky I'd ask
> and answer where the Baptist SF was.)  Or even specifically *Protestant*
> Christian SF?
>>
>
> I can't think of any Lutheran SF offhand, but there's an excellent Quaker
> SF novel called "Pennterra" by Judith Moffatt.
>
>
> --
> Dan'l Danehy-Oakes
>
>
>
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