(urth) A second dream team: Mucor, Oreb, and Pike

[Pedro Pereira]

Marc and James:
 
1) You're right. I remember now that when Scylla separates from Oreb in Red Sun Whorl he becomes more like a normal bird.
 
2) I still think that just by itself the theory that "real" ghosts cannot interact with physical objects is fleamsy (or whatever is the correct word in english). Although the physical body is dead they are still the spirit of a beying, just like in the case of astral projection, so its possible that in this "universe" ghosts can become more material. HornSilk is very clear on that point, if I remember correctly. When SilkHorn is at the tomb of Scylla it seems that both he and Hide tend to become less material unless they are interacting with the world, or so Hide tells us, for example. Anyway, this does not mean that both Marc and James are wrong on this point. I'm just pointing out that I think this is a weak argument just by itself.
 
I'd like to point out that I'm not averse to to the idea that astral travel can be done both in space and time in the books. Your arguments are pretty solid and I don't remember anything against it in the books. I was just pointing out some things for you to consider in your arguments and in one of them I was shown to be incorrect. The other one I'm not convinced but it doesn't contradict your ideas anyway. 
 
I'll take the oportunity to put some questions of my own here, if you don't mind and could be so kind as to give me some imput:
 
1) I remember Horn mentioning the beast with three horns in IGJ. When did Horn get into Babbie?
 
2) I always thought that the Red Sun Scylla was the daughter of Typhon having become one of the sea monsters, maybe transforming itself like Baldanders is supposed to become and as is suggested for other creatures in BotNS. But in RttW we are shown that she died young (killed by Typhon for her revolt when still very young?) If that is the case, how did the Red Sun sea monster Scylla came about? It seems then that Typhon's daughter, as part of the plot against him, had as her main contact the sea monster Scylla instead and not that she became that same Scylla. When she was uploaded she could have chosen the name Scylla as a kind of nod to her "master". This seams to be more correct than. After all there seems to be some kind of connection between the sea monster Scylla from Red Sun and the "Mother" from Short Sun. 
 
Pedro



From: crushtv at gmail.comTo: urth at lists.urth.netDate: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 21:54:17 -0500Subject: Re: (urth) A second dream team: Mucor, Oreb, and Pike



Pedro says:"1) Oreb in Astral form was always like a small boy with feathers. He is ALWAYS like that because the astral form shows how a person's spirit "is". For example Silkhorn says, when he sees Babbie in astral form for the first time, that he was curious to see how much "human" babbie was. This does not agree well with seeying Oreb in astral form as he is in the real world."
 
Marc responds:
"Oreb appears as a human spirit because he is embued with scylla"
 
I say:
Marc is right. Oreb appears as part human when he is possessed. And IIRC his looks change during the various spirit travel episodes. Furthermore, there is frankly no other explanation for the ghost-Oreb event except for Silk's rationalization which, aside from being totally contrary to the described event, is negated by Wolfe's M.O. of having "rational explanations" be always wrong.
Pedro says: "2) There's nothing in Wolfe's Solar Cycle that goes against a ghost having physical form capable of interacting with objects. In fact there are plenty of examples on "gothic stories" in which ghosts do have physical presence and can interact with physical objects. "
 
I say:
Not like this....except maybe in Abbot & Costello's "Hold That Ghost". The event is way too playful --even corny-- and, anyway, if the ghost is Pike (in the way Silk believes it is) it has zero narrative significance in anyway that anyone has explained so far. 
_________________________________________________________________
Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. It's easy!
http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20080918/905a6621/attachment-0005.htm>