(urth) Sev's common lineage

[Dave Tallman]

b sharp wrote:

> Yes, my scenario involves two time travels, one forward, one back, while yours involves one. I
>
> don't see mine being so very unparsimonious. Moreover, along with Jeff Wilson's concerns, your
> scenario seems to  allow no explanation for why Catherine, as a complete stranger to all in the past,
> is imprisoned for years, cloned repeatedly then tortured to death. You imply yours does explain why
>
> she is cloned but I don't see it.
>
>
In the Commonwealth, long prison sentences are usually the result of
confusion and neglect, as witness the waiting room prison in the House
Absolute. Sev says something similar about the insane long-term prisoners in
the third level. Catherine's lack of contemporary contacts actually works
against her. She might be arrested on a minor offence like breaking Pelerine
vows or stealing from them. The police try to check out her background and
find that she's nobody, yet clearly of exultant blood. She is sent to the
Citadel prison, with instructions to keep her alive until the Autarch has
time to deal with her. He never gets around to it.

The guild, in literal-minded obedience, extends her life using khabits.
Since they have to maintain the khabits (off-site, since they aren't
technically prisoners), the guild decides to put them to work in the annual
Feast of St. Katharine.  Having an identical maid year after year will
increase the mystery and awe for the new apprentices.

Catherine-1's child, Sev-1, goes on to show promise of bringing the New Sun,
so time-travelling interference begins. Someone investigates and finds his
mother in prison. A plot is hatched to bring him into contact with her body;
therefore she is finally executed. The original plan may not have predicted
exactly what happened with Vodalus, Thea, and Thecla -- that seems very
far-fetched. Perhaps they were testing the possibility that he could
resurrect his mother, just as (in my theory) they later tested him with the
beheaded Katharine.

In my scenario, Catherine is forced back to her own time to fulfill
her destiny. Probably by Father Inire,
>
> who, as you argue, is probably still the secret power behind the throne. If the Praetorians killed her in
> the future, she wouldn't have the same destiny, wouldn't be in the coffin in the necropolis, Severian never
>
> meets Vodalus or Thea, doesn't fall in love with Thecla, etc. etc. Surely Inire knew this.
>
>
Careful of the time paradox here. Catherine can't be forced to fulfill her
destiny the first time, because her destiny can't be known until it has
happened once. Before the fact, it's highly uncertain what a meeting with
Vodalus in the necropolis will do to Sev's life.  If the graveyard scene is
the result of temporal interference, then Sev1 somehow got sent north (or
ran away there) even without that meeting, and went on to become Autarch by
chance. I like Andrew's suggestion that the dog Triskelle was more deeply
involved. Say Sev1 was seen feeding a pet in the oubilette, and he knew the
dog would be killed. He might escape with Triskelle and run north to become
a soldier, eventually meeting the Autarch at the front.

Sending Catherine back to bear Sev is crucial, well-worth the time of
several Praetorians on flood day.  Sending her back to be a corpse in the
cemetary? Why bother? Any other corpse of interest to Vodalus would do just
as well.

I still don't see that any effort should be made to find a source of
exultant blood for Severian. He is tall
>
> compared to most people but at least a head shorter than every single exultant he meets. In other words,
> he is of armiger height just like (who I think are) his family members, Catherine, Cyriaca and Jolenta.
>
>
Being a cross between an exultant and a commoner (Ouen) would also make him
shorter.

I agree that unnamed major characters such as Dorcas' husband, (and
the St Katharine maid,
> and the Castellan) send up a red flag.  Some of the age issues seem to bend your family theory almost to
> the breaking point, though I've always thought of Casdoe as being in her 30's.  Old boatman as Uncle
>
> Severian is an interesting twist. Catherine and Ouen as siblings certainly fits my view of the incestuous
> family curse (as does the impending relationship between Ouen and Dorcas at the end of CotA).
>
>
What evidence is there for Ouen/Catherine being an incestuous relationship?
There's a lot of guesswork in this theory about Ouen's losing track of his
sibling. I don't see the merit in trying to bring in as much incest as
possible into Sev's family tree.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.urth.net/pipermail/urth-urth.net/attachments/20080630/1995b0ed/attachment-0005.htm>