(urth) Sev's common lineage

[Roy C. Lackey]

Dave Tallman quoted and wrote:
>Dave takes the mention of the names of two people who are not even in the
>> Play and extrapolates a whole series of obliging khaibits, seventeen
years
>> for Sev's mother in the nut-case lower level of the Matachin tower, her
>> execution and burial a year and a half before Sev's elevation
>> (accomplished,
>> apparently, without his knowledge), all of this orchestrated by unseen
>> Hierogrammate agents and with the necessary complicity of the Guild and,
>> presumably, the autarch they serve. He also requires an extra-textual
trip
>> in time to augment the Conciliator's speech for Canog's edification. It's
>> just too great a leap and too much for me to swallow on faith.
>
>
>The extra trip or trips back in time are not extra-textual:
[snip of quote]

Yes, I am aware of that quote and there are other hints that Sev would make
trips in time, eventually. But the trip(s) to that inn and those other
prospective trips are not related in the text of either of his manuscripts.

>We know that Catherine was confined in Matachin tower when she gave birth
to
>Severian. "Perhaps I was too distant from myself, from the Severian of bone
>and flesh borne by Catherine in a cell of the oubliette under the Matachin
>Tower." (Urth XLIV)

I am *very* aware of that quote: It was the subject of some . . . spirited .
. . debate not that long ago.

>The idea that she was also the corpse in the necropolis is separable. If
she
>was not, she could die much sooner. There are a few difficulties explaining
>the memories Vodalus and friends might ingest, so that part can be taken or
>left IMOP. It could be any ordinary corpse, and the recollection of the
>graveyard scene only suggested by the thought that Ultan has been "buried"
>in his underground library for years.

It could also have been the corpse of the mother of the unnamed volunteer
who said, "I'm going to watch over my mother."

>Where I insist on finding new evidence is in the names of the maids. It's
>not "two people who are not even in the Play," but three people, one of
whom
>is protrayed and the other two called for by name. Why have the Contessa
>call out those other names at all?

She had just been assaulted. For all we know it was just an interjection
along the lines of, "Saints preserve us!" or "God help me!". Abban invoked
St. Amand at the Inn of Lost Loves, but that's pretty feeble. <g> I don't
have a problem with the maids having the names of martyred saints angle;
it's the rest I balk at.

> Gratuitous details are suspect in Wolfe
>books.

Yeah, but sometimes a cigar is only a cigar. <g>

> When I find that all three name beheaded saints, I want to tie it
>into a theory. I also find that Saint Carina was a mother and her son was
>beheaded. A sequence of beheaded women to me suggests the Feast of St.
>Katharine. The unaging look of the woman could be explained by a series of
>khaibits. It could also be a single time-traveler, but I think you'd agree
>that's worse.

Martyrdom, torture and beheadings are common to many Saints in the
catalogue, too many.

[snip]
>One more thought -- there's a mention in both BotNS and UotNA of the arches
>in the loggia which make Sev seem to appear and disappear to the Contessa.
>("I shifted from one arch to the next to keep them in view" ). This may tie
>in with Master Ash -- he could only exist in a past where his future had a
>good chance to occur. Catherine could have an alternating existence
>depending on the varying chances of Sev bringing the New Sun. That might
>make it interesting to keep her around for observation.

The simplest explanation is the one given in both the Play and URTH. In the
Play she called the arches "windows". Just as Sev moved from arch to arch to
keep her in view as she was escorted along, so the Countess in the Play
perceived the man's movement as shifting from window to window. No need to
complicate matters. Strop that Razor!

Look, I knew from your first few postings that you had been through the
archives and were trying very hard to come up with something new to say
about all the stuff we have been arguing about here for years. That's
commendable on both counts. I am also aware that few of the things we argue
about here (and that's the right verb; it's seldom discuss) are amenable to
clear-cut answers or it would have all been sorted out years ago. Hell, I
think there are some people here who won't even agree that Dorcas is
Severian's grandmother. Other people have their pet theories that owe more
to imagination than the texts will allow, and no amount of contrary evidence
or reasoning will dissuade them. You haven't asked my opinion, but I hope
you don't get carried away with trying too hard. FWIW.

-Roy