(urth) Damn filthy Hiero-wasp-creatures

Stanislaus sbocian at poczta.fm
Sun Jan 6 12:39:52 PST 2008

Hello thalassocrat,

Sunday, January 6, 2008, 6:18:36 AM, you wrote:

> In UOTNS, the Hirarchs and Tzadkiel lie repeatedly and harm Sev and 

> other humans in ways which range from displays of petty malice to 
> near-genocide.

> There is no evidence whatsoever that they are part of a holy 
> hierarchy with the Increate at its apex. The only reason for 
> believing in Hireodudes-as-angels is if one already has a 
> conception of a universe structured in such a way, as Sev does.

> Sev's perceptions are moulded by the religion which he absorbed as 
> a child and youth, and by his training to obedience to authority as 

> a torturer. The religion, of course, is the one for which he 
> himself provided the founding myth, in Typhon's day. There is no 
> connection to the Increate. In Citadel, when he prays at the 
> Pelerine altar, he finds the object of his prayers to be himself.

> Sev's religion is based ultimately on Sev's own claims to be a 
> Conciliator and the "miracles" he performed; of course these 
> "miracles" were merely phenomena of a higher technology. The 
> "conciliation" is at best an unfulfilled hope, at worst a lie 
> deliberately engendered by T. There is nothing anywhere to suggest 
> a closer union between humans and Hiero-people or any benefit to 
> humans. ...

> The Hierogrammates are not angels of the Increate. They appear to 
> me to be a species of evolved insect. The Hierachs are their 
> "larvae" - they live underground, perhaps in something resembling 
> an insect nest, but certainly evoking images of Morlocks.

The Neoplatonic philosophy is hard to understand. The hierarchical part is simple, but the ultimate otherness of the Increate is difficult to understand. Severian, however, undestood it, as far as it is possible. Read again the parable of the cock - the angels are still infinitely far from the Increate, and can only guess at his wishes.

The religion of Urth is much older than Conciliator and in no way depends on his miracles, or in fact on any miracles (although they still happen). It was founded by Theoanthropos. As to the technological explanation for Severian's resurrection - it is not exactly apparent in the books. 

The most important difference is that most religions and philosophies have very different value structures from the modern one. Killing nearly all people on earth certainly was not good, but in the neoplatonic view it was very far from real, important evil. Reading Machen helps to understand that point of view.


Hierogrammates are certainly not angels and do not claim it at all. On the other hand such beings as Tzadkiel are very much different from them.

I wonder whether you did read "Voyage to Arcturus" by David Lindsay? I think it would have interested you.


Best regards,
 Stanislaus                           mailto:sbocian at poczta.fm

Mamy worek pelen prezentow. Te prezenty sa dla Ciebie.

Sprawdz >> http://link.interia.pl/f1cbf

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