(urth) Something Newish

[Transentient]

I have a particularly vivid memory from before I could walk or talk. I  
was crawling along the floor of the kitchen and I found the dog's  
bowl. I remember thinking, since the dog eats it, it must be good, so  
I stuffed a piece in my mouth, and then my mother started freaking out  
and the dog was looking at me amusedly.

On Dec 5, 2008, at 12:52 AM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:

> I think that Wizard Knight is Wolfe's ideas of the kind of thing that
> happens to a decent, relatively innocent, but non-Christian person  
> after
> death: the world that Able finds himself in is his purgatory.
>
> Does anyone here remember being born? I remember being circumcised (I
> would have been eight days old), and I have memories that seem to  
> precede
> that, but it is very hard to say.
>
>
>> My main point, in this and others of the conceededly tiresome threads
>> on this topic, has been to argue that the Gene Wolfe who depicts
>> non-Christian faiths so empathetically in Long Sun, Short Sun, Latro,
>> etc., is likely a big believer in so-called anonymous  
>> Christianity.  I
>> very much doubt that he thinks that all of those people on Urth are
>> going straight to Hell--just try to imagine Silk, for example,
>> explaining to Horn that everyone who doesn't follow the Outsider will
>> burn eternally.  It's jarring, and almost certainly not where Wolfe  
>> is
>> going with the destruction of Urth.
>>
>> Because of this, I don't see Severian's "Christ-like" characteristics
>> as implying any kind of moral sanction for the Ushas choice unless
>> there's something deeper going on--a third layer, behind the
>> Hierogrammates, where the Increate is working some kind of subtle
>> magic.  What this is, however, is a mystery I haven't solved yet.
>>
>> And so I get frustrated when, on this list, many who are not
>> Christians themselves sort of imply that this monstrous act in the
>> book is something that I should just be gung-ho about because, well,
>> the Christian God is pretty much a monster Himself.  I don't buy  
>> that,
>> and I don't think Wolfe does, and I think it misses the mark in
>> understanding the New Sun.
>>
>> Anyway, that's my take.  I've said it.
>>
>> On 12/4/08, Jordon Flato <jordonflato at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Not exactly sure that's a fair way to describe the Second
>>> Coming...the
>>>>> End of the Universe is naturally a "mass genocide" in a sense,  
>>>>> but a
>>>>> very limited one...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Fair enough.  But, the end of everything is a limited genocide?  I  
>>> guess
>>> you
>>> can argue that, but there is always the ever present and tiring  
>>> argument
>>> that the billions of non-Christians slated to go to hell is about  
>>> as bad
>>> as
>>> the drowning of most of Urth.  However, that is a surface level and
>>> facile
>>> argument that I'm not going to put forward.  To me, that's about the
>>> level
>>> of "if God is so good, how come he let's kids die" argument, which I
>>> also
>>> think is facile.
>>>
>>> I'm going to definitely concede that one area that Severian is very
>>> UNChristlike is that he isn't aware of his (possible) connection  
>>> with
>>> the
>>> Divine plan.  Christ certainly knows where his bread is buttered.   
>>> Sev
>>> doesn't.  But again, at root this is all a "Sev has some echos of  
>>> the
>>> Christ
>>> Myth" not "Sev is actually Christ".
>>>
>>> The hair's we are splitting are getting so fine I'm gonna need a  
>>> bigger
>>> scalpel.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, yes, but neither Severian nor, it seems, Tzadkiel is the  
>>>>> master
>>>>> of life and death.  They have no sure knowledge of life "on the  
>>>>> other
>>>>> side," nor any authority over creation the way a divine being  
>>>>> does.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It'd be nice to have some textual evidence, though, wouldn't it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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