(urth) Vance and Tokien as influences on D&D

[Adam Thornton]

On Jun 9, 2007, at 3:07 PM, Dave Lebling wrote:
> stilskin wrote:
>> --- Tim Walters <walters at doubtfulpalace.com> wrote:
>>> And Fletcher Pratt, who I think is less well known
>>> than he should be (G. G. Kay and G.R.R. Martin owe him  
>>> plenty).     Let's not forget Michael Moorcock and Poul Anderson!
> If we're going that far, we might as well include L. Sprague deCamp  
> as well. The "Incomplete Enchanter" stories he wrote with Pratt  
> were one of the highlights of the "Unknown" era. I for one always  
> liked deCamp better than Pratt.

But once we go this far then we need to start considering second-and- 
third order effects.  I mean, OK, so you have Moorcock.  Looking back  
you've got Mervyn Peake, and forward you have M. John Harrison and  
the whole British crowd of Moorcock-inspired genre authors.  Which  
would bring you to, say, China Mieville, on whom Vance is probably  
more of a second-order influence by way of Gygax.  But of course, to  
bring this back to Wolfe, Mieville is extremely Borges-influenced as  
well.  And also Lewis Carroll; I can't think offhand of anything  
specifically Carrollian in Wolfe, but I will be amazed if someone on  
this list can't immediately pipe up with something.  (Of course, you  
could get there via Jasper Fforde, since the Unitary Authority of  
Warrington (formerly Cheshire) Cat is in charge of the Library of  
Babel--and therefore is, of course Master Ultan, and since Cyby is  
Wolfe's self-insertion, that might make Thursday Next Gene Wolfe, and  
now my head has explodiated.

> In any case, the magic system in D&D (and the one in the Zork  
> computer games) was directly stolen from the Dying Earth stories,  
> as was the grue. As the thief in the latter case, I can be sure of  
> that.

Imagine my delight upon finding, early on in _Lolita_, that  
prostitutes were referred to as _grues_.  The Great Underground  
Empire will, I fear, never look quite the same to me.

Adam

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