(urth) OT - Watchmen on trial

Maru Dubshinki marudubshinki at gmail.com
Mon Mar 21 20:02:38 PST 2005

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 22:37:15 -0500, Thomas Bitterman <tom at bitterman.net> wrote:
>  Maru Dubshinki wrote:
>  On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:55:05 -0800, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
> wrote: 

>  Hierarchy, loyalty, military service, land/economic concessions under it
> all.  Fascist - not so much.
>  No deification of nation, no identification of national and corporate
> interests.  The Fremen, on the other
>  hand - fascist as all get out.

Meh- I am not certain how much of that is fascist and how much simply
xenophobic paranoid superstitious tribal characteristics, nor do I
really see any identification of 'national and corporate interests' :)

> > Secondly, while (I'm not saying that is true, but for the sake of argument
> >I'll let it pass) that may be true of "Dune" proper, that is radically not
> >true of the series as a whole- I honestly know of no other way to
> >characterize the Scattering as anything but anti-authoritarian and rather
> >democratic. 
>As a last gasp of a dying society?  The Worm had to drag
> humanity kicking and screaming
>  to it.
> The desert Fremen certainly think of
> themselves as a "master race", and the book encourages
>  that view.

Wait, pause, which Fremen was that? The Fremen who: A) got raped up da
butt by the Old Empire in countless ways, B) Had their culture and way
of life not just destroyed by the Worm, but reduced to an utter
mockery, C) Had their religion perverted by master maniuplators, and
were themselves manipulated by Muad'Dib and the BG and others, who
essentially used'em as cannonfodder D) Had their planet reduced to
worse than burnt ash by the HMs, or E) None of the Above?
Yes, I was certainly encouraged to view the superstitious, gullible,
corruptible Fremen as a master race.  Heil Stilgar!


More information about the Urth mailing list