(urth) OT - Watchmen on trial

Maru Dubshinki marudubshinki at gmail.com
Mon Mar 21 17:15:17 PST 2005

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:55:05 -0800, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com> wrote:
> I wonder if you understand Nietzsche half so well as you think you do.
> "Beware when you wrestle with monsters..." might stand as the motto
> to TDKR.

Monsters wrestle with you?

> You want to know a classic that's facistic as all hell?
> Read _Dune_ and pay attention to what's actually going on.
> Master race, fuhrerprinzip, the whole works.

Alright, I find that not a little insulting and downright wrong.
First off, what the hell do you expect?  The whole power system in the Duniverse
is feudal, practically fascistic by definition.  I mean, I've never
seen a fictional work which had a feudal power structure and wasn't
Secondly, while (I'm not saying that is true, but for the sake of
argument I'll let it pass) that may be true of "Dune" proper, that is
radically not true of the series as a whole- I honestly know of no
other way to characterize the Scattering as anything but
anti-authoritarian and rather democratic.
And thirdly, Herbert specifically claimed that much of the work was a
warning; a warning of the bloodbaths, the tragedies, (this is actually
relevant to the other discussion about judging Severian; we can
similarly judge Paul, but his crimes are far worse, not gigadeaths,
but more like tera-deaths. I think the specific quote is in DM; but a
commonality is that both are forced into it. Or did you miss all the
parts where Paul presciently sought a way out and tried to end the
Jihad?) of what happens when blind faith is put in a messianic leader
and conquests (hmm, sounds like a decent description of a fascist
leader.).  Notice also that the "master race" (you mean the Atreides
no doubt) dwindle in importance, from a Great House which threaten the
emperor, to regular people who flee in the scattering. And also as
breeding stock whose jewel (Siona) is scattered to the masses, hardly
what one would expect of a neo-fascist ruling race.
That said, Watchmen sounds interesting.  Think I'll pester my library
to acquire it.

"In Soviet Russia, monsters wrestle with you!"

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